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Post by Edna Krabappel on Jan 30, 2011 19:52:43 GMT -5
I dunno. I don't think Justine is above it, like it's completely unfathomable she'd revert to doping, but the same applies to pretty much every pro player around. So it is a bit meaningless to speculate about it until some solid evidence surfaces. And Justine did play the Olympics in '04 at height of all those doping allegations, and as we all know, the Olympics love busting out people. Even if there's no reason at all, like in the case of Andreea Raducan that I always mention.
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Post by R. Black on Jan 30, 2011 19:55:52 GMT -5
Not to mention Capriati is the player who transformed from fat to fit in the fishy timeframe of 4-6 weeks. I saw her play in Philly in Nov. of the year before her AO/RG glory and she was BIG, as in fat. Then suddenly she was solid muscle in January. But... Roids don't melt fat, do they? She just lost the extra weight, and the muscles were hidden under the fat. It's not physically possible to gain a lot of muscles while losing fat in a period of 2 months, with or without steroids.
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Post by DBBN on Jan 30, 2011 20:24:04 GMT -5
After I yelled at some R-tard named "Juju Nostalgique" on WTAW for saying Nadal was on drugs, he bad-repped me saying "everyone knows it!!!!1" Right, so "everyone" let him win three Slams running while they knew he was on drugs.
You'd think a Justine fan would be less accusatory, but hey. He's dumber than farts.
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Post by leelee on Jan 30, 2011 20:41:58 GMT -5
Doping speculation against anyone without proof is only marginally less retarded. I speculate that every athlete has. So, I guess I'm the dumbest person alive.
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Post by janie on Jan 30, 2011 20:59:59 GMT -5
Not to mention Capriati is the player who transformed from fat to fit in the fishy timeframe of 4-6 weeks. I saw her play in Philly in Nov. of the year before her AO/RG glory and she was BIG, as in fat. Then suddenly she was solid muscle in January. But... Roids don't melt fat, do they? She just lost the extra weight, and the muscles were hidden under the fat. It's not physically possible to gain a lot of muscles while losing fat in a period of 2 months, with or without steroids. I'm not accusing Jennifer. I'm only saying that for her to point fingers with this "evidence" of fast recovery -- and yes, IV water and electrolytes DO cause a fast, "miraculous" recovery in cases of match-related dehydration -- is very silly, since she herself had a shocking career and fitness turnaround in a short period that could be regarded as even more suspicious. But regarding tennis players taking drugs, I'm the opposite of Leena. I always assume no one takes anything (aside from recreational) and am surprised every time anyone does. Unlike the ATP with Agassi, though, the WTA would have been all too happy to bust JH if she had ever tested positive for anything. Remember Larry Scott's snide remark when she retired? He didn't like her. I'm sure some of them would be happy for Serena to test positive, too.
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Post by janie on Jan 30, 2011 21:02:24 GMT -5
I speculate that every athlete has. So, I guess I'm the dumbest person alive. Hey, welcome back, "leelee Guest"!
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Post by Edna Krabappel on Jan 30, 2011 21:02:34 GMT -5
Surely Na Lee hasn't deleted herself over this? Come on.
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Post by janie on Jan 30, 2011 21:12:18 GMT -5
Maybe she just got tired of being Old Hag.
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Post by DBBN on Jan 30, 2011 21:32:19 GMT -5
Doping speculation against anyone without proof is only marginally less retarded. I speculate that every athlete has. So, I guess I'm the dumbest person alive. I just watched a "Friday Night Lights" with a bipolar character. Then this happened, but now I have compassion for it. No, wait, I don't. Lulz at Leelee.
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Post by DBBN on Jan 30, 2011 21:32:56 GMT -5
Surely Na Lee hasn't deleted herself over this? Come on. Leena retires. Again.
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Post by Grarliner on Jan 30, 2011 21:40:48 GMT -5
Back to Hurley for a second. It's a bit cheap to play the "there's no proof" card when there isn't/hasn't been adequate testing. There is still not a good test for human growth hormone that I'm aware of.
Of course it's also a bit cheap to accuse people of steroid abuse without evidence. But there is some reason for suspicion in Justine's case and since I don't think it can be argued that the WTA's testing means she (or anyone else) definitely didn't, I think it's ok to speculate once in a while.
Besides, hers is not the only name mentioned in this thread.
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Post by DBBN on Jan 30, 2011 21:47:11 GMT -5
Back to Hurley for a second. It's a bit cheap to play the "there's no proof" card when there isn't/hasn't been adequate testing. There is still not a good test for human growth hormone that I'm aware of. I am not a scientist so I am by no means an expert, however the testing is as good as it can be, so... And...this doesn't relate to anything I've said regarding doping in this thread.
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Post by The Chloe on Jan 30, 2011 21:56:32 GMT -5
I don't think it's necessarily wrong to speculate, it just seems a touch silly 100% of the time, is all.
lulz @ leelee guest. I'll miss you. Come back!
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Post by Grarliner on Jan 30, 2011 22:46:31 GMT -5
Back to Hurley for a second. It's a bit cheap to play the "there's no proof" card when there isn't/hasn't been adequate testing. There is still not a good test for human growth hormone that I'm aware of. I am not a scientist so I am by no means an expert, however the testing is as good as it can be, so... And...this doesn't relate to anything I've said regarding doping in this thread. I don't think it is as good as it can be, is it? I've certainly heard otherwise. Maybe a lot has changed but I recall Lindsay being quite critical that nobody bothered to test her even once while she was rehabbing her knee injury in 2002. Is anyone testing Serena while she's out of competition?
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Post by DBBN on Jan 30, 2011 23:35:19 GMT -5
I have literally no idea.
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Post by Wagasi on Jan 31, 2011 2:26:38 GMT -5
Why did this turn into a Who Is Doping Now thread? Why did Lee Na retire?
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Post by The Chloe on Jan 31, 2011 2:44:15 GMT -5
Nobody knows.
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Post by lexpretend on Jan 31, 2011 9:01:49 GMT -5
Sudden retirement = doping ∴ Old Hag was on ROIDS.
I don't think doping is rampant in the upper echelons of tennis, because you can't really drug yourself into having better technique or a stronger mentality...look at those who've been busted, like Odesnik - even with HGH he was still a NWAPNWBAP. I guess the Karatantcheva case is illustrative of the potential gap in achievements on vs. off roids, but a) she was way overranked when she was #35 and not really having consistent results commensurate with that, b) she lost critical years of development.
But sadly I wouldn't exactly be shocked if big names transpired to have been on roids. That includes Justine and the Williamses. And yes, suspicion re: the two-year "retirement" breaks and extended time off for "injuries" has crossed my mind.
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Post by DBBN on Jan 31, 2011 9:58:01 GMT -5
Skepticism is natural, but I think seriously considering a correlation on nothing more than a "gut feeling" is extremely dangerous.
But my initial statement was too harsh and reductive, and for that, I apologize, especially to Crazy Guest Leelee.
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Post by janie on Jan 31, 2011 11:49:05 GMT -5
I'm just sad and sorry to see our last Justine thread turn into a doping and a Leena retires thread. We have discussed and can again discuss those two topics any time, anywhere. I never thought JH was doping, I'm terribly sorry to never have the chance to see her play again, and I think she deserves better than to have this thread degenerate this way. To me she was a great champion, not the most lovable player out there, but I am not looking for lovable in the athletes I follow. I want fire and excellence and artistry, and Justine gave us all of those for many years. And now, just when she had all her fire and motivation fully back and was hoping to play for another 6-7 years, she's been forced out of the game by a grave injury which, like Lendl's back, might not be ruinous for daily life but is too severe to continue her planned athletic career. It's very sad. As for Leena, surely after all these years she knows that every one of us wants to have her here, all the time. But she's a grownup now, and she can decide for herself if she wants to rejoin us or not. I do hope she'll come back. She's our own prickly JenCap, who would happily curse out a crying baby in the stands. We need that edge here.
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Post by Maeby Fünke on Jan 31, 2011 15:11:42 GMT -5
I hope they aren't all on performance enhancing drugs, because that would make them worse than we already think they are.
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Post by Grarliner on Jan 31, 2011 17:43:01 GMT -5
I'm just sad and sorry to see our last Justine thread turn into a doping and a Leena retires thread. We have discussed and can again discuss those two topics any time, anywhere. I never thought JH was doping, I'm terribly sorry to never have the chance to see her play again, and I think she deserves better than to have this thread degenerate this way. To me she was a great champion, not the most lovable player out there, but I am not looking for lovable in the athletes I follow. I want fire and excellence and artistry, and Justine gave us all of those for many years. And now, just when she had all her fire and motivation fully back and was hoping to play for another 6-7 years, she's been forced out of the game by a grave injury which, like Lendl's back, might not be ruinous for daily life but is too severe to continue her planned athletic career. It's very sad. As for Leena, surely after all these years she knows that every one of us wants to have her here, all the time. But she's a grownup now, and she can decide for herself if she wants to rejoin us or not. I do hope she'll come back. She's our own prickly JenCap, who would happily curse out a crying baby in the stands. We need that edge here. Just a couple thoughts ... I don't mean to "ruin" a thread. We did talk a lot about Justine's career before the roids discussion. I thought a digression was fair after about 40 posts. Yes, we are all sad about Justine and maybe that leads to emotions running high for some people. I'm sure her biggest fans do not want to speculate on steroids at this time. But if you don't want to you don't have to. And if I had created a "Is Justine on roids?" thread next to this one wouldn't you have said the same thing about how Justine deserves better and this isn't the time etc.? Anyway, I don't mean any offense. I was honestly curious about what Leena said and wanted to talk about it. As for someone deleting themselves, I echo entirely your thoughts on the matter. Let's move this on to a different sphere: will there ever be another? Is there another Mauresmo/Henin type player with the one-handed backhand of doom? Someone needs to save us from the two-handed backhand monotony (half the reason I like Fed is he plays with one hand off the backhand). The World #4 is one such player but it doesn't look like she'll be around forever.
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Post by Wagasi on Jan 31, 2011 18:27:34 GMT -5
We seem to be running out of stylish players with 2 handed backhands too. The future looks to belong to the pushers and bashers. Somewhat promisingly creative games like Radwanska's are too easily frustrated by retrievers or overwhelmed by big hitters. Of the remaining few extant players with more skills Jankovic forgot how to play tennis, Bepa just grinds 95% of the time and Kim mostly alternates between bashing and retrieving.
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Post by janie on Jan 31, 2011 19:28:57 GMT -5
I wasn't "offended", just saddened and surprised by all these suspicions. If I believed, like some people seem to, that many if not most tennis pros are doping, I'd lose interest in the sport completely. As for the state of women's tennis, I don't see any relief in sight anywhere. But we still have Franny! I mean to enjoy her while we still can.
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Post by The Chloe on Feb 2, 2011 23:16:43 GMT -5
I find it reasonable to assume that many professional athletes are doped, tennis players included; I don't find it reasonable to add "ESPECIALLY THAT ONE" followed by photos of a large bicep or an anecdote about how said player became more muscular over time or whatever the Hell else. Of course, people can point fingers all they wish... they just maybe should pass on that part where they feel insulted for being called out for it, is all.
Anyways, I really came back in here because I was wondering last month where Corswandst went. Did we lose him again and I missed it?
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Post by Grarliner on Feb 3, 2011 3:37:25 GMT -5
I find it reasonable to assume that many professional athletes are doped, tennis players included; I don't find it reasonable to add "ESPECIALLY THAT ONE" followed by photos of a large bicep or an anecdote about how said player became more muscular over time or whatever the Hell else. Of course, people can point fingers all they wish... they just maybe should pass on that part where they feel insulted for being called out for it, is all. Anyways, I really came back in here because I was wondering last month where Corswandst went. Did we lose him again and I missed it? Yeah, where is he? AMG is just starting to lose ranking ground and everything!
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Post by DBBN on Feb 3, 2011 9:34:45 GMT -5
I broke him too. Like a year ago, people!
Sorry.
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Post by The Chloe on Feb 3, 2011 12:00:00 GMT -5
Wasn't he around for the USO? I noticed he hadn't been around for a while, I only just commented on it now. Delayed reaction!
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Post by DBBN on Feb 3, 2011 13:47:45 GMT -5
It's nice to know that no one notices when I break the toys. *picks up Janie, throws her across room*
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Post by The Chloe on Feb 3, 2011 13:59:31 GMT -5
I just don't understand how you can break people by having a contrary opinion. What the Hell.
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