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Post by DBBN on Oct 25, 2011 16:11:45 GMT -5
Wednesday, October 26, 2011
Sinan Erdem Dome (from 17.00hrs)
1. Samantha Stosur vs. Victoria Azarenka
2. Maria Sharapova vs. Li Na
3. Caroline Wozniacki vs. Vera Zvonareva
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Post by DBBN on Oct 25, 2011 16:12:05 GMT -5
Match #2 should be just terrible.
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Post by Wagasi on Oct 25, 2011 20:26:58 GMT -5
Bepa, please don't be horrible. Also start winning again LeeNa. Take it Samanananantha.
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Post by Grarliner on Oct 26, 2011 1:38:47 GMT -5
This on Yahoo!'s blog. Tell me whether the last two sentences make any fucking sense:
The Dane is struggling right now as she tries to free herself from her father. Her relationship with the golfer Rory McIroy may have played a part in this wish to get away from the influence of Piotr Wozniacki, but immediately she felt the professional void it was leading to because her father has always been in full charge of her game. He was "fired" for a time this summer but then Caroline came with him to every tournament, showing some unusual breaks in their communication. This is a proof of her hesitations in the arrangement and a sign that it may not last longer.
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Post by Edna Krabappel on Oct 26, 2011 10:32:56 GMT -5
I know Azza can be obnoxious, but celebrating a win in a RR match when your opponent was horrible as if you have just won Wimbledon is taking it a bit too far.
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 26, 2011 10:42:24 GMT -5
I guess you celebrate what you can when you're never going to win Wimbledon.
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Post by Grarliner on Oct 26, 2011 12:56:34 GMT -5
Li puts down Sharapova 7-6 6-4. Maria actually double-faulted fewer times than her opponent but it did not help.
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Post by DBBN on Oct 26, 2011 12:58:11 GMT -5
I actually took the day off and was watching this match up to the TB, when there was Emergency Work! I started doing crap at 4-0 Sharapova in the TB and the next time I looked up it was 7-4 Li. I lulzed and tried to rewind my DVR, but it is crappy and I had to turn it off and on again.
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Post by Grarliner on Oct 26, 2011 13:03:15 GMT -5
What a ScoreLiNa.
The critical Zvonareva-Wozniacki tilt is about to start. Some are saying Vera has a shoulder issue.
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Post by Maeby Fünke on Oct 26, 2011 13:49:41 GMT -5
Seems to be holding up so far.  *finds some wood to touch*  |
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Post by Grarliner on Oct 26, 2011 13:51:10 GMT -5
Yeah, no kidding.
Woz led 40-0 on her serve in the first game of the match. She didn't win it. It's been downhill since then.
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Post by DBBN on Oct 26, 2011 15:38:56 GMT -5
I said it at WTA World, and I'll say it here:
It really is quite stunning that such a BAD tennis player (if you look at quality of game in strictly binary terms, 1 being GOOD and 0 being BAD) can be #1, and that not one of the (admittedly few) GOOD players can build enough of a head of steam from week to week to dislodge her from #1.
But we're getting closer.
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Post by Grarliner on Oct 26, 2011 15:53:30 GMT -5
That's exactly the issue, isn't it? None of these supposedly good players you say exist are good enough week-in, week-out to dislodge her from #1. So maybe they aren't better than her.
You say they're getting closer. Maybe they are. My money is on Kvitova to be the next #1 with a possible Sharapova stint early next year.
Anyway, we don't need to have the Woz discussion again. I think we should focus on what just happened - a good win for Vera. So now we have a real race to see what happens in that group. Woz is 1-1, Vera is 1-1, Kvitova 1-0 and Aga 0-1. A-Rad has Vera's number lately. She has never beaten Kvitova, though their last match was very close. Wozniacki leads Kvitova in their head-to-head but you have to figure the big Czech has the advantage indoors. This group could come down to sets won.
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Post by Maeby Fünke on Oct 26, 2011 15:59:43 GMT -5
Vera could start with being good set-in, set-out and work from there.
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Post by DBBN on Oct 26, 2011 16:03:13 GMT -5
That's exactly the issue, isn't it? Yes. That...is why I said it. But they are better than her. Wozniacki just doesn't know how to play good tennis. The strokes aren't there for the most part. Anyway, this is a REP from Shvedbarilescu re: my inflammatory comment: "Using your strictly binary criteria for whether a player is good or bad one would have to get somewhere in the rankings below 500 before one could start defining any of the players as "BAD". Very dumb post, and I'm not a Wozniacki fan." No, seriously. That was in the REP column. Boy needs an editor. |
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 26, 2011 16:58:13 GMT -5
Oh I'm quite sad Ma$ha pulled out. I saw the scores on my phone and got quite excited about the possibility of her playing the traditional Bepa role of going 0-3 here. Good for Lee Na, though. In fact all of today's results are positives.
The question I'm more interested in is, leaving Woz out of it, why the hell can't any of the ladies who have these months of looking like elite players sustain it for an adequate length of time? They're talented. They have the mental strength to win Wimbledon, RG, USO. The field is woeful. Fucking step up and stay stepped up.
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 26, 2011 17:00:52 GMT -5
Let's hope CAKE doesn't reprise what ensued last time she was an alternate at the YEC.
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 26, 2011 17:09:23 GMT -5
Also what's with the constant injuries? Look, if the Big Four on the men's side can go all these years without breaking I don't see any reason why the SEWTA women need to do it on a monthly basis apart from shitty training methods or laziness. Seriously, Djokovic has been rightly mocked for his w/ds over the years but he's the picture of resilience compared to basically every SEWTA "top" player.
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Post by Grarliner on Oct 26, 2011 17:34:58 GMT -5
Let's hope CAKE doesn't reprise what ensued last time she was an alternate at the YEC. Did she get double-bagelled? I vaguely recall some sort of shit like that. |
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Post by Maeby Fünke on Oct 26, 2011 17:42:03 GMT -5
Bepa has only gone 0-3 once. Kuz did it twice. Laugh at her instead.
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 26, 2011 17:55:46 GMT -5
I suspect it is, as ever, Demented who should be mocked.
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Post by Edna Krabappel on Oct 26, 2011 18:05:41 GMT -5
I suspect it is, as ever, Demented who should be mocked. She didn't win a set 2004-2006. Her record at YEC after the new system was introduced is 5-17. |
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Post by Iorix on Oct 27, 2011 6:39:17 GMT -5
I said it at WTA World, and I'll say it here: It really is quite stunning that such a BAD tennis player (if you look at quality of game in strictly binary terms, 1 being GOOD and 0 being BAD) can be #1, and that not one of the (admittedly few) GOOD players can build enough of a head of steam from week to week to dislodge her from #1. But we're getting closer. Wozniacka's game is just so aggressively pedestrian. But it's not like she's trying to outplay, let alone outhit, anyone. She's a very good athlete, ultrafit, very resilient, and her MO is prolonging the rallies and outlasting her opposition, i.e. pure attrition. It's just a different way of winning. [Captain Obvious] Nobody (else) can step up and play at a consistently high level throughout the year because the top tier pro players' levels of fitness and stamina are yet to catch up to the increased demands in physical and mental resilience of facing much tougher opposition from earlier on in every tournament (i.e. increased depth in the middle ranks) since c. 2007. In women's tennis, the good movers tend not to be good shotmakers and the good shotmakers tend to be poor movers. When someone manages to be good at both, we usually get a multiple GS winner. But chances of getting a good athlete who can also hit the fucking ball right now are slim as the good athletes tend to drift into team sports. The elitism of tennis doesn't help. [/Captain Obvious] |
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Post by DBBN on Oct 27, 2011 7:00:18 GMT -5
You and your team sports. How can you make any money doing that if you're a woman? That's a serious question. It's not possible in the USA, that's for sure.
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 27, 2011 7:11:54 GMT -5
the top tier pro players' levels of fitness and stamina are yet to catch up to the increased demands in physical and mental resilience of facing much tougher opposition from earlier on in every tournament (i.e. increased depth in the middle ranks) since c. 2007. What tougher opposition?! We've covered this elsewhere. Jeepers, Brianti, Birnerova. The middle ranks aren't any better than they ever were, and arguably they're even worse. There's no reason anyone with real elite talent should get stuck in the middle of the rankings as every "top" junior seems to, nor any reason why they shouldn't just bulldoze those basic bitches if they're a top tenner. The elitism was surely even worse back in the day, and yet we still got Graf, Navratilova, the Williamses and so on coming through. Also, why haven't all of the factors blamed for the state of SEWTA affected the ATP? The money at stake, the increased physical demands, the "stronger field"...they'd affect the men too, surely? |
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Post by Edna Krabappel on Oct 27, 2011 8:02:21 GMT -5
You and your team sports. How can you make any money doing that if you're a woman? That's a serious question. It's not possible in the USA, that's for sure. That's why they're coming to Europe! Have you seen the USA women's volleyball team? They're tremendous athletes. Much better than the vast majority of tennis players. They all play in Europe. It makes for a nice living. Surely not as much as top tennis players earn, but you can pay your bills and then some. Of course, I'm not sure that's the reason why tennis struggles. |
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Post by Iorix on Oct 27, 2011 9:39:12 GMT -5
You and your team sports. How can you make any money doing that if you're a woman? That's a serious question. It's not possible in the USA, that's for sure. There are pro football and volleyball leagues throughout Europe. They pay enough to warrant say Portuguese footballers to move to Germany, Spain or (pre-2008) Iceland, and it's a steady wage. What tougher opposition?! We've covered this elsewhere. Jeepers, Brianti, Birnerova. The middle ranks aren't any better than they ever were, and arguably they're even worse. There's no reason anyone with real elite talent should get stuck in the middle of the rankings as every "top" junior seems to, nor any reason why they shouldn't just bulldoze those basic bitches if they're a top tenner. Those scrubs are the exception that confirms the rule. And as a rule, IMO it's beyond reasonable doubt that the #10-60 range is way stronger than it was even 5-6 years ago. The top juniors of recent years just aren't very good. Either slowpoke bashers or puffballing nonentities (i.e. what I mentioned in the post above, taken to the extreme). Very few good athletes among them, and that can't just be a coincidence. Also, why haven't all of the factors blamed for the state of SEWTA affected the ATP? The money at stake, the increased physical demands, the "stronger field"...they'd affect the men too, surely? Men are just physically stronger; way bigger pool of naturally gifted athletes to recruit from. And apart from the Big 4, few players have shown themselves able to keep playing at a very high level throughout the whole season. |
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 27, 2011 10:20:30 GMT -5
The #10-60 range? The range that Niculescu and Cetkovska have gatecrashed in recent months? Vinci reaching the top 20? AMG hauling herself back up there with no problems? Pervak, Scheepers, Begu, Hradecka, Errani, fucking Halep?
I'm looking at the YE rankings of 2003 and the current #10-60 range is just...not better at all. Back then you had your random bashers like Bovina, Sprem, Shaughnessy, Tulyaganova. Veterans like Maleeva, Likhovtseva, Raymond. And up-and-comers like Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Safina - if the Hercogs and Haleps we have now go on to achieve half of what those players did I'll be shocked.
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 27, 2011 10:23:26 GMT -5
I'd also question whether the ability to withstand the rigours of a pro season is to do with natural physical strength or laziness. Time and again we've seen players go to the next level when they get serious about their fitness. But there's no motivation for any SEWTA player to push herself to be able to play at a top level for a whole season because there's no benchmark, no target to aim for.
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Post by DBBN on Oct 27, 2011 12:51:00 GMT -5
There are successful pro soccer leagues for women in Europe??  You and your team sports. How can you make any money doing that if you're a woman? That's a serious question. It's not possible in the USA, that's for sure. That's why they're coming to Europe! Have you seen the USA women's volleyball team? They're tremendous athletes. Much better than the vast majority of tennis players. They all play in Europe. It makes for a nice living. Surely not as much as top tennis players earn, but you can pay your bills and then some. Of course, I'm not sure that's the reason why tennis struggles. I can imagine. If you're an extremely athletic girl in the States, I'd say that -- or field hockey -- would be your go-to sport, outside of soccer (which will always pale in comparison to the boys' team). It's true that an individual (for the most part) sport like tennis will lack the camaraderie of being on a team, and, as I've said before, as girls become more, say, brazen and forward (and good for them) I'm sure the social aspect of team sports is more appealing than the cutthroat, rivalrous atmosphere of the individual sports which were the mid-90's American meal tickets -- tennis, golf, and figure skating. |
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