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Post by lexpretend on Jul 31, 2013 17:15:22 GMT -5
I guess most of us also play recreationally. This is where we can hopefully talk about how to improve.
I've just started playing properly regularly for the first time in years (as opposed to a few times every summer, when weather/tennis partners aligned). I had a bit of coaching when I was in high school so I know the basics of technique, but as Tim can attest, I'm a pretty mediocre player. I can feel my groundstrokes getting better with practice though. Annoyingly, the shots I hit in court in practice tend to go in the net or just out in a match, but hopefully that'll improve with more play.
I really, really struggle with serving though. When I play matches against my boyfriend I end up committing about three DFs per game and by the end of a set I literally have no idea what, physically, to do to get it in the box. It ends up seriously affecting my enjoyment of the game because I flat-out hate attempting to do it. Rationally I know the technique as well - foot diagonal to service line, continental grip etc - but every time I try to toss the ball as high as I know it should go, I end up shanking the serve. I can't time the swing of my racquet arm and I certainly can't make it a fluid action.
At some point I'm probably just going to get a coach to look at it but are there any beginner-level tips anyone has for this?
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Post by lexpretend on Jul 31, 2013 17:17:41 GMT -5
(Annoyingly, despite never having had any formal coaching, he has a decent bug first serve; his second serve is really shitty but it almost always goes in. When I try to slow it down and tap it in, it still ends up as a fault.)
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Post by R. Black on Aug 5, 2013 4:42:59 GMT -5
I'm at the same point. I don't know why, even when I don't care if I'll lose 0 and 0, that I can't hit the same way I hit during practice. It must be mental but I'm not sure how to improve that. And my serve sucks.
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Post by Paean on Aug 6, 2013 6:27:45 GMT -5
I obliterated some pusher yesterday and only served 2 DFs which is about 6 times less than usual. Was quite proud by my patience and the number of short CC winners.
It is mental. I would advice you guys to get yourself a coach for an hour or two, so he shows you the basic technique and a somewhat fluid service motion. After that there's no other way but to hit the courts with a few cans of old balls and train, train and train. Just the serve. A few hours of such practice will do wonders for your serve. It will still break down at times during matches but if you don't retreat to the usual "tapping it in" and stick with the improved version you will improve it by quite some margin. And it's always a better feeling if you miss a decent, more risky second serve than the "I'll just hit it over the net" serve.
Later I'll post some tips which will be useless most likely, but I don't care - I'm in a good mood because my tennis is good, finally.
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Post by Traveling Man on Aug 6, 2013 7:45:54 GMT -5
We had a thread in here about our tennis games and stuff. I think Grarliner started it. I haven't played in over 2 years but will be getting my racquet in my shipment next month and then will be hitting the courts. That should be disastrous initially. It always takes me a while to get my timing. Two hands off both sides and all that - although I switch to a one handed backhand quite often.
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Post by Grarliner on Aug 6, 2013 14:03:04 GMT -5
We can move to a new thread!
My serve tip is that you need to generate some spin (slice is easier than topspin). If it makes any sense to you, try to carve around the ball or brush past it instead of connecting with it directly.
One other thing: you cannot hit a good serve if you are thinking about it in your mind while you're doing it. You will surely screw it up. My guess, Alex, is if you make that many DFs there is probably some sort of major technique flaw.
Oh, did you ever play baseball? The serve motion should feel like throwing a baseball.
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Post by lexpretend on Aug 7, 2013 6:44:28 GMT -5
I remember trying to learn how to carve around/brush past the ball when I was a teenager. I couldn't do it then and when I try to put it into practice now I either shank the serve or completely miss the ball. I also know that a higher toss is ideal, and to come over on it from above, and those end up in shanks as well.
I've never really been able to throw a ball well, which is probably the root of the problem. But I feel like the serve is such a complicated motion, so many things to pay attention to and get right, and it seems like the more I try to concentrate on getting everything right the worse it gets.
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Post by Traveling Man on Aug 8, 2013 8:16:35 GMT -5
Grarliner is right. The slice serve is easier to hit. I have a poor serve but can manage it - take a look at Steffi videos...a slice serve with her motion is easy. Not the extremely high ball toss though.
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Post by Grarliner on Aug 12, 2013 16:42:00 GMT -5
I remember trying to learn how to carve around/brush past the ball when I was a teenager. I couldn't do it then and when I try to put it into practice now I either shank the serve or completely miss the ball. I also know that a higher toss is ideal, and to come over on it from above, and those end up in shanks as well. I've never really been able to throw a ball well, which is probably the root of the problem. But I feel like the serve is such a complicated motion, so many things to pay attention to and get right, and it seems like the more I try to concentrate on getting everything right the worse it gets. Some more questions, then: Are you getting full arm extension when you're serving? I have noticed with people who aren't comfortable with the serve motion that they sometimes think they should hit the ball with a bent elbow. That is to say that they let the ball drop until they make contact with a tomahawk-chop motion which only involves their elbow and forearm - their arm is basically the straight sides of a right-angle triangle. That motion will 100% guarantee a horrible serve forever. You need full arm extension as if you really, really wanted the teacher to pick you to answer a question in class. One other thing is that you can't stand stock-still and have your arm do all the work. A good serve is a full-body effort. I'm not talking about advanced things like jumping or anything like that. But you need to have the idea of your body weight moving forwards. You might want to forget the idea of putting spin on it for now and just try to make clean contact and put it over the net. Doesn't matter if it goes 10 feet long. You can worry about putting it in the box later. Just hit it flat and over the net. Good contact. That should get you comfortable with what you have to do to make solid contact and keep your arm extended. Last thing to keep in mind is that serving is not easy. It will take time. But if you keep practicing it, it can't help but get better. If I can do it, anyone can.
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Post by lexpretend on Aug 13, 2013 5:59:44 GMT -5
I've consciously served with a bent elbow. My service motion changes every time, because if it doesn't go in (ie, most of the time) I try to change what I'm doing so that it does. This probably doesn't help. But it's hard to even be conscious of what I'm doing, let alone work out what I should do to fix it, especially as it seems like the more I concentrate on correct technique the worse I shank it. I have no idea how people who have never had formal coaching manage to have decent serves. I served four consecutive DFs in two separate service games at the weekend Both miles long and in the middle of the net. Ended up just serving underarm half the time. It's probably connected that I don't recall ever having hit a successful smash.
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Post by Paean on Aug 13, 2013 6:29:50 GMT -5
Lost to a junkballer yesterday. He's constantly playing backhand slices and drops, which I can't attack and has a very flat low-bouncing forehand, which I can't attack either. I hate playing against such arrhythmic players.
How tall are you Alex? You really shouldn't be having that much trouble with the serve and reducing it to the underarm one.
First serve - you toss the ball ahead of you, so that if you let it drop it falls down within 1 meter from the baseline. That way, as Grarliner pointed out, you get the body behind the ball and you don't let the arm do all the work. A bad ball toss can ruin your serve, too. So, don't hit a serve if the ball toss is bad, let it drop and do it again.
Don't overthink - you'll serve best when you're completely relaxed and not thinking about the whole procedure and technique.
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Post by lexpretend on Aug 13, 2013 8:08:36 GMT -5
I'm short, about 173cm, but it feels more like lack of coordination is the problem. From the moment I toss it up I have no idea what to do with my racquet arm or when to do it.
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Post by Denise49IQ on Aug 13, 2013 15:39:59 GMT -5
I just think you are over thinking this waaaaay too much. Mental blocks are tricky ones, and I am experiencing something similar with my forehand (when it comes to me high with some pace in the deuce court, I seem to... not know how to hit the ball properly any more; feet all over the place; proper swing AWOL).
I am just trying not to think about things too much, and aim to improve each time I play (if this is on a regular basis). There is no quick fix, but you need to stop concentrating so much on just one shot and practice, practice, practice. Extend your arm, throw the ball up high and aim to get a racquet on it. After a few months when / if you're not hitting so many DFs, I would get some coaching to take you to the next level.
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Post by Denise49IQ on Aug 13, 2013 15:41:50 GMT -5
Isn't Leelee's Bug Serve like, top 300 in the world still? I'm sure she's the best one here for tips.
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Post by Traveling Man on Aug 15, 2013 8:10:32 GMT -5
I was always told to pronate on the serve. I still have no idea, over a decade later, what that means. Just go out there and hit however you're comfortable and what comes naturally to you. I'm playing tennis this weekend after 2 years with some guys from work. Should be disastrous.
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Post by lexpretend on Aug 15, 2013 8:25:32 GMT -5
Pronating is something to do with the wrist but by the time my serve gets to that stage I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing with any bits of my body.
I played again last night and it was even worse. Concentrated on extending my arm...faults. Concentrating on shifting my weight forward...faults, usually bouncing on my side of the court. My bf gave me four serves instead of two on each point and I still DFed entire games away. Yes, sixteen consecutive faults. I don't understand how he, with no formal coaching ever, has a decent bug serve yet I don't know how to even get it in the box!
Worse than that is how terrible I am in matches compared to practice rallies. Missing the simplest returns and EVERY time I try to do anything with the ball - change direction, hit a winner, whatever - it's an error. Yet the minute we go back to practice I can construct points, hit winners etc.
At least my practice smashes are just as bad as my match play smashes. All in the net.
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Post by lexpretend on Aug 15, 2013 8:26:22 GMT -5
Also the ball toss is really, really hard to get right. It never goes where I want it to.
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Post by Grarliner on Aug 16, 2013 2:54:28 GMT -5
Pronating is something to do with the wrist but by the time my serve gets to that stage I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing with any bits of my body. I played again last night and it was even worse. Concentrated on extending my arm...faults. Concentrating on shifting my weight forward...faults, usually bouncing on my side of the court. My bf gave me four serves instead of two on each point and I still DFed entire games away. Yes, sixteen consecutive faults. I don't understand how he, with no formal coaching ever, has a decent bug serve yet I don't know how to even get it in the box! Worse than that is how terrible I am in matches compared to practice rallies. Missing the simplest returns and EVERY time I try to do anything with the ball - change direction, hit a winner, whatever - it's an error. Yet the minute we go back to practice I can construct points, hit winners etc. At least my practice smashes are just as bad as my match play smashes. All in the net. New idea. For a problem as bad as you are describing, you might want to try the following: go into the court towards the net until you CAN hit the ball in the service box with an overhand motion every time (ish). I don't care if you're on top of the fucking net. Then back up a few steps and see if you can put it in the box. Then back up more. And more. See at what distance it gets iffy. It seems from your description that you are pulling the ball down. Try and miss (if you have to) long. Make sure it has the height to go over the net. Make whatever adjustment you can make to send that ball over the net and worry less about where it comes down. For if everything is coming down on your side, you're striking the ball too late, too low, wrong grip ... something major. Matchplay is hard. Players talk about confidence and belief because they really do matter. Tennis happens so fast that you must always believe in your strokes or they will fail you. Any tension throws off your timing, footwork and racket prep. It's tough because if you start missing, it's hard not to lose confidence. But if you lose confidence, you'll miss more. And if you miss more ... Here's what I tell myself when I make errors early. "The next one is going in. I will make those shots, because I do in practice." You don't need to believe that entirely, but you do have to stay positive.
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Post by Denise49IQ on Aug 16, 2013 14:17:31 GMT -5
You know what losses hurt the most? Losing to pushers. I played the ulimate Wozniacki tonight and lost 4 and 3. Hideous and comical. I couldn't put the ball away.
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Post by Paean on Aug 18, 2013 6:18:37 GMT -5
I see why nobody cares about doubles. I'm a completely inadequate doubles player, mostly confusing my partner and not knowing at all how to cover the court. With singles you at least know that nobody else is going to hit the ball.
Pronating the wrist comes naturally, I think. During the serve motion your palm rotates from facing the left(if you're a right-hander) to facing down, just when you hit the ball. But that goes for flat and kick serves. I don't think you can hit a slice serve that way.
Match play and practice play are so much different. During practice you don't feel the need to "do" something with the ball and you feel no tension, while during the match you overplay and rush into the ball, because you want to finish off the point or get an upper hand in the rally.
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Post by lexpretend on Aug 20, 2013 7:10:54 GMT -5
Pronating is something to do with the wrist but by the time my serve gets to that stage I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing with any bits of my body. I played again last night and it was even worse. Concentrated on extending my arm...faults. Concentrating on shifting my weight forward...faults, usually bouncing on my side of the court. My bf gave me four serves instead of two on each point and I still DFed entire games away. Yes, sixteen consecutive faults. I don't understand how he, with no formal coaching ever, has a decent bug serve yet I don't know how to even get it in the box! Worse than that is how terrible I am in matches compared to practice rallies. Missing the simplest returns and EVERY time I try to do anything with the ball - change direction, hit a winner, whatever - it's an error. Yet the minute we go back to practice I can construct points, hit winners etc. At least my practice smashes are just as bad as my match play smashes. All in the net. New idea. For a problem as bad as you are describing, you might want to try the following: go into the court towards the net until you CAN hit the ball in the service box with an overhand motion every time (ish). I don't care if you're on top of the fucking net. Then back up a few steps and see if you can put it in the box. Then back up more. And more. See at what distance it gets iffy. This actually worked! It got iffy about midway between baseline and service line. After I'd done that drill it definitely improved - I had half a set of fairly consistent serving before it fell apart again. Frustratingly, it would disappear in cascades out of nowhere - one DF would lead to another and then I'd totally lose confidence. Also, I DFed on EVERY BP I faced in the match. SEWTA-worthy. And yes, starting to play regularly really does illustrate the massive gulf between matchplay and practice...last weekend I played my best match of the summer but it made little difference to the scoreline because on important points I'd just DF (my serve). And on his serve, every weak second serve I got early in the game I'd hit for a winner or set up the point well with; every weak second serve I got on BP or deuce I'd hit into the net. I don't really like volleying but a common pitfall in recreational tennis is that your opponent often hits short balls that you can gain the upper hand with, and it feels so natural to follow it into the net, and then flub 99% of the volleys and 100% of the smashes.
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Post by Old Hag on Aug 20, 2013 20:00:24 GMT -5
I don't play anymore because of work and old and lazy.
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Post by Traveling Man on Aug 25, 2013 3:15:13 GMT -5
So after nearly two months of no gym and over two years of no tennis, I've been chosen for the company tennis team and we have a competition in Singapore next month. I've registered with a gym where I start tomorrow. Mornings I'll be doing resistance training monday-saturday. Evenings I'll be taking a class at the gym (mixing it up, resistance training, core and yoga/pilates/tai chi). Saturdays is also resistance training and yoga. Team practices for the competition are mondays, wednesdays and saturdays. My game and body are woefully poor right now but I'm hoping to change all this soon. Competition is in a month. Will come to bitch and whine about how awful I am in this thread a lot!
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Post by Traveling Man on Aug 31, 2013 19:15:43 GMT -5
So I played yesterday but am so out of shape that I was exhausted and out of breath after only playing for 4 hours.
As expected the timing was off, did not take necessary small steps to get into position and made a lot of really poor errors. But during the matches I would keep reminding myself to make little adjustments and it would work. Stuff like taking a short backswing on the ROS and fixing the racquet face, moving forward to serve into the court etc. Serving became much easier once the arm had loosened up.
Also my whole body is sore and aches.
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Post by Paean on Sept 14, 2013 13:08:16 GMT -5
Anytime there's a club tournament or a league match of more importance I completely freeze. I turn into an idiot who's missing the most basic shots and losing to much worse players. If I wasn't very satisfied with my game when I'm playing training matches, I swear I could give up on tennis.
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Post by Traveling Man on Sept 15, 2013 0:09:02 GMT -5
Do you have a pre-match ritual? You should have one to keep your mind busy and distracted from the situation and have you focus on just playing the game. I thought it was silly, but it does work - much like a set number of bounces before serving to avoid you rushing. I played last week and was serving atrociously in a practice set so walked off to an empty court and just hit serves for 20 minutes and when I went back and played another set of tennis, the serve was much better because it had gotten grooved. Maybe that could be it? Get a hit in 15-20 minutes before your match just to loosen everything up?
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Post by Paean on Sept 15, 2013 7:33:07 GMT -5
Do you have a pre-match ritual? You should have one to keep your mind busy and distracted from the situation and have you focus on just playing the game. I thought it was silly, but it does work - much like a set number of bounces before serving to avoid you rushing. I played last week and was serving atrociously in a practice set so walked off to an empty court and just hit serves for 20 minutes and when I went back and played another set of tennis, the serve was much better because it had gotten grooved. Maybe that could be it? Get a hit in 15-20 minutes before your match just to loosen everything up? It's just silly to get tense - win or lose nobody gets anything (of value), there should be no pressure on me. And still, when the match starts I don't hit through the ball and am sweating and out of breath after only 2 or 3 games. So yeah, choking from the very start of the match. I'm in great shape and that shouldn't be happening - it's the nerves and it's killing me that I keep losing matches because I can't sort myself out. Ha, it's virtually impossible to find an empty court at my club, they're booked 12 hours in advance. I'll try with some wacky ritual, like making sure not to step on the lines, lol. If nothing else it will keep me entertained even when I'm playing awful.
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Post by The Chloe on Oct 13, 2013 4:12:12 GMT -5
Can I move this to General Tennis?
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Post by Traveling Man on Oct 15, 2013 6:29:51 GMT -5
I enjoy this thread. Let's talk more in here. And let's play more too (me!!!)
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Post by lexpretend on Oct 16, 2013 15:31:44 GMT -5
I've improved since I last posted, annoyingly this doesn't make much of a difference to the scorelines as my execution in a match compared to practice is awful, I reliably fuck up big points, I still need coaching because I never know exactly WHY I'm missing or what physically to do to put it right. As for the serve...it's more stable, but it can go off out of nowhere and when it goes off, DFs come in cascades.
I do hold on to the FH winners and lobs I hit to keep me going...
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