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Post by Grarliner on Jul 6, 2013 10:02:03 GMT -5
First two-handed off both sides to win Wimbledon. She got the one Monica and Justine couldn't. Great result, so happy for her! 2-handers should have lots of trouble defending and getting in the right position for groundstrokes on quick courts, but luckily she didn't have to face anyone who could really make her uncomfortable. That and she usually started the rallies in the driver's seat. Lisicki has monstrous power, as we all know. But Marion didn't allow her to dictate.
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Post by DBBN on Jul 6, 2013 10:02:09 GMT -5
God, I can't believe I used to follow her around in qualies and Challengers on Long Island a million years ago. She won Wimbledon! CAKE CAKE CAKE
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Post by Grarliner on Jul 6, 2013 10:04:16 GMT -5
When I found out Bartoli is 28, I had a weird moment where I wasn't sure how old I thought she was. It seems like she's always been young, yet it feels like she's been on the Tour for 900 years.
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Post by cynicole on Jul 6, 2013 10:08:48 GMT -5
I remember watching Bartoli up close at thin-draw Stanford (I mean, Dewonder Davis got into qualies there). Also Schiavone. Just feels weird that both are Slam champs...in rather similar circumstances.
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Post by Old Hag on Jul 6, 2013 10:27:38 GMT -5
It's weird because Bovina was a better player than Lo Schiavo and CAKE a decade ago. There's a decent chance she'd be a GS champ if she stayed healthy. Which is nuts.
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Post by Lady on Jul 6, 2013 10:34:06 GMT -5
It's weird because Bovina was a better player than Lo Schiavo and CAKE a decade ago. There's a decent chance she'd be a GS champ if she stayed healthy. Which is nuts. She was. She's the 1st Russian I actually liked.
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Post by Old Hag on Jul 6, 2013 10:45:47 GMT -5
I'm disappointed ESPN didn't have the Hall of Fame song for CAKE's glorious victory.
But, seriously, she's probably going to the HOF now. Lol.
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Post by DBBN on Jul 6, 2013 10:48:42 GMT -5
CAKE gives great interviews. I had forgotten. I'm wildly pro-her again. Hope she can maintain a consistent year/career after this.
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Post by Old Hag on Jul 6, 2013 12:18:19 GMT -5
I'd be surprised if both finalists weren't back to easily losing 2R-3R after this. CAKE was 14-12 this year before Wimbly, btw.
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Post by Wagasi on Jul 6, 2013 12:36:56 GMT -5
As usual you're right LeeLee. No issue though, one slam wonders are normal now, at least CAKE got hers.
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Post by R. Black on Jul 6, 2013 12:59:15 GMT -5
My issue with Schiavone and Bartoli winning Slams is that there is no feeling they are playing significantly better tennis. Bartoli's W-L record this year confirms it. So the only conclusion is that the main factor why they won is because the opposition they faced is weaker. Surely this can't be a good thing.
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Post by Old Hag on Jul 6, 2013 13:09:04 GMT -5
It was different with Lo Schiavo because she beat two top 5 players, yes they were injured, but still. And Stosur who had proved she was a top clay player, and she followed it up pretty well. Marion beat a hot Lisicki at her one good tournament and a bunch of players lucky to make the 2nd week of any slam.
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Post by Wagasi on Jul 6, 2013 13:15:02 GMT -5
Tauzita must be stewing after this result.
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Post by R. Black on Jul 6, 2013 13:20:28 GMT -5
Shockingly, she doesn't appear to have any issue with CAKE.
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Post by DBBN on Jul 6, 2013 13:31:47 GMT -5
My issue with Schiavone and Bartoli winning Slams is that there is no feeling they are playing significantly better tennis. Bartoli's W-L record this year confirms it. So the only conclusion is that the main factor why they won is because the opposition they faced is weaker. Surely this can't be a good thing. Truth, and I think I've been saying this for a while. People are retiring and nobody good is coming up. There is a vacuum instead and mediocre players are having "best years evarrrrrrrr!!!!!!11111" No. Lepchenko, Zakopalova, Flipkens, even players I like like Vinci aren't better. Nature is abhorring the vacuum. It's happening at all levels, from the top (Errani) to the bottom (Minella) too.
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Post by Old Hag on Jul 6, 2013 14:22:19 GMT -5
So, I'm watching this Venus equal prize money thing... am I really supposed to feel bad that female tennis players were making 90% of what male players made, which is still a ridiculous amount. And you're showing this after a SEWTA final that nobody gave a shit about except hardcore fans. I wonder if they'll show Asian crowds with 100 silent people in this.
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Post by The Chloe on Jul 6, 2013 16:24:37 GMT -5
This is playing just like Schiavone-Stosur, the veteran maintaining her form (with lots of DFs though) and the giantkilling newbie freaking out. I had completely forgotten that Schiavone won RG.
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Post by DBBN on Jul 6, 2013 16:31:31 GMT -5
Now I care about doubles!!!
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Post by Old Hag on Jul 6, 2013 16:33:30 GMT -5
That trophy sucks compared to the singles' ones. Boo.
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Post by Wagasi on Jul 6, 2013 17:05:22 GMT -5
Heh. Remember the early 2000 wtaworlders who thought that Shuai, Su-Wei and Marion would be grand slam champions? I'd never have expected them to arrive there in such circuitous fashion. Even Kaia eventually made good (somewhat). Maybe next year Kleybanova will win something and Pitu will un-retire.
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Post by DBBN on Jul 6, 2013 17:24:27 GMT -5
I mean, Flipkens! She's Top 15 now. What is happening.
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Post by Pamela Shriver on Jul 6, 2013 17:48:42 GMT -5
The SHUAI! hype was unreal when it started on the World. I don't remember big Bartoli devotions, though.
However, I do remember watching Marissa Irvin beat Bartoli many years back. Turned out to not really be a career indicator for either one.
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Post by Wagasi on Jul 6, 2013 17:59:14 GMT -5
Ashley Harkleroad has a 2-1 h2h against Bartoli ffs.
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Post by Grarliner on Jul 6, 2013 19:52:08 GMT -5
My issue with Schiavone and Bartoli winning Slams is that there is no feeling they are playing significantly better tennis. Bartoli's W-L record this year confirms it. So the only conclusion is that the main factor why they won is because the opposition they faced is weaker. Surely this can't be a good thing. I can't agree with that in the case of Schiavone, at least. She reached the top five after with numerous good results and she backed up the title with a run to the final the following year. She was indeed playing much better tennis than her career "normal" in 2010/2011. At least, she was doing so with a lot more consistency. As for what happens with Marion after this, that remains to be seen.
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Post by R. Black on Jul 6, 2013 20:14:46 GMT -5
What numerous good results?
She did follow up with a final the year after: Oudin, Dolonts, Peng, JJ, Pavly, CAKE.
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Post by R. Black on Jul 6, 2013 20:22:02 GMT -5
To be clear, yes luck is often a factor in tennis. But it should not be the MAIN factor, like having a shitty season and then winning a Slam without facing a player in the top 15. Or beating Oudin, Dolonts, Peng, JJ, Pavly and CAKE to reach the final of a Slam. Or beating 2 injured players to win one. I know we are saying this every day since the last 10 years but come on, how much obvious can it be that the tour sucks.
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Post by Old Hag on Jul 6, 2013 21:07:35 GMT -5
That 2011 run wasn't bad. You could easily say the same thing if she had to beat the top seeds, Karolina and Bepa. She maintained top 10 level into 2012 RG, that's more than we expected.
SEWTA has been terrible for nearly a decade now, but it's not because of the occasional fluke slam win.
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Post by R. Black on Jul 6, 2013 23:15:36 GMT -5
I'm not arguing SEWTA sucks because of those random fluke wins. The point is more that if SEWTA wouldn't be terrible, then we would have none of this.
That Schiavone is a fine player (which I don't deny) does not change the fact that luck played a disproportionate role is her late success.
Anyway, if one concedes that SEWTA sucks, then it's hard to argue against the rest. I mean, it's a corollary that average players are ridiculously lucky if a GOAT or 2 are missing in the global picture.
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Post by Grarliner on Jul 7, 2013 2:09:56 GMT -5
What numerous good results? She did follow up with a final the year after: Oudin, Dolonts, Peng, JJ, Pavly, CAKE. She made the QF or better of the following in the year after her French Championship: Canada 2010, U.S. Open 2010, Tokyo 2010, Beijing 2010. Australian Open 2011, Rome 2011, Brussels 2011, French Open 2011. I think that's much better than Schiavone's career average and can not be explained by "luck". You also might give her points for saving her best for the biggest tournaments. After that, I concede it gets more sparse, and things return to Schiavone's historical mode of losing first or second round a lot with the occasional tournament where she strings together several wins for a deep run. But I maintain that the results indicate only one conclusion - she was playing a lot better than she ever had, or has since, in 2010-2011.
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Post by lexpretend on Jul 7, 2013 3:28:09 GMT -5
OMG, Su-Wei won the doubles!!!!! Two of my long-time faves that I'd never thought would be Wimbledon champions...now are. No one has ever denied that Fran was a lucky, fluke Slam win. It just seems churlish to focus on that aspect. She obviously was never going to suddenly start racking up Graf-like results afterwards at the age of 100 or whatever, but she started taking advantage of her new seeding to make latter rounds a lot, which is all you could ask. Plus, she really transcended herself in the final. That was a better quality final than most involving "real" elite players. CAKE has had a shitty season for well-documented personal reasons but it's no surprise given her history that she'd turn it around at Wimbledon. It's not like she backed into the title while still playing badly, her SF and F were brilliant performances. Obviously she had a very lucky draw but she's paid her giant-killing dues in the past. Her Wimbledon career overall makes her a worthy winner. I don't think I'm going to complain about SEWTA when it means my favourites are winning Slams and the alternative is the awful Big Three.
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